UNREACHABLE AND UNTEACHABLE STUDENTS
Every Chinese college and university has them, from top tier down to the bottom 4th tier.Usually every class has at least one and the unlucky teacher may be saddled with several. Occasionally, an entire class may be beyond reach.
No matter what the pedagogy, the methodology, the materials; there are some students who have decided that higher education is only an endurance requirement. In America there is an educational philosophy that no child shall be left behind. China has a slightly different bent – no college student shall fail to receive a diploma so long as the tuition has been paid.
Nationally, 5% of Chinese university students are unreachable and unteachable. At Zongshan University 1.6% of the post-graduate non-English majors are unreachable and unteachable.
Chinese students know full well that they will not be failed even if they never attend classes. They are allowed to retake a final exam, with a different teacher each time, until a teacher is found who will pass them. Failing grades issued by foreign teachers are administratively changes rather regularly. The Chinese educational system deprives the teacher of a major external motivational tool and the students take advantage of this situation.
These students are not too hard to identify. They sit in the back row and try to blend into the back wall. Some sit up front, arms crossed with a scowl on their face that says a D-8 bulldozer isn’t going to move them.
Some give themselves away by telling the foreign teacher “you do not understand China” or “you do not understand Chinese students” or “you do not teach like a Chinese teacher.”
Others will declare their open contempt for English due to some misguided nationalistic pride. Some will state that they do not need English now or in the future. A Shanghai University student declared that his father was a very high Shanghai Government party official and that his father would always take care of his future, both politically and financially. This boy was well connected and his future was assured. Within months his father was caught up in the political purge and power shift that saw all of Shanghai’s political leaders replaced. His father was imprisoned and made to forfeit all of his money and property. The boy was weeks away from graduation and would receive a useless degree.
A young man in Guangzhou insisted that he would never need English because his father was Chairman of the Board and majority Shareholder of a major Chinese company. This boy wasted his educational opportunity in reliance on his father’s position and wealth. Within two months of the boy’s graduation his father was imprisoned for economic crimes and sentenced to death and forfeiture of all money and property.
It is sad indeed to watch any misguided student pursue a path of self-destruction. But no matter what you say or do, they are determined to serve their time at university without earning an education because they know an education (Diploma) will be handed to them as long as their tuition is paid. Educated idiots!
As a student, we should cherish our precious opportunity of study. We should get some achievements to prepare for our future. As to the unreachable and unreachable students, I want to say to them, when you become into a falling students, how would your parents feel?
As to the student who sent the E-mail to Martin, I think the way he express his opinions is unacceptable. He has a strong patriotic complex, but he expresses it in a wrong way.
1.What some foreign teachers found strange about Chinese culture.
Some foreign teachers who had taught me when I was at high school were curious about why Chinese students were not willing to open their mouths and discuss in classes. I concede that foreign children are cultivated in the environment filled with encouragement. And they are always told that they are the best, which makes them confident. Yet as a conservative contrary, one of our traditions is to be noble. And gradually everyone is going to hide himself/herself instead of showing off. We can also give another example, showing the difference between Chinese and foreigners towards appreciation. When considered good, Chinese prefer to be noble and deny the appreciation, even though they actually think so, while the foreigners just accept the praise and say thank you. Obviously, it is the social background that has great influence on individuals, and as a consequence, foreign teachers may have misunderstood Chinese in this aspect.
There remain many strange aspects, or we can call them “gaps”, of Chinese culture in the eyes of foreign teachers. They may treat us Chinese as rude, as we shout loudly at public places, and as we talk on the phone with high voice no matter when and where, and something like that. In some cases they also think us ridiculous, for the reason that they sometimes see Chinese push the button of an elevator for 50 or 60 times, supposing that the door might be close quicker. All of the problems above, in my opinion, is probably due to a reason that China is a big country with considerable amount of people. Now, it is not tough to understand why there are so many blemishes. Every country has good and bad citizens, and China admits that some of her children lack morality. All the government can do now is to fasten the development of China ’s economy and education in order to solve these problems.
2.How some westerners see you and China .
Part of the westerners think China is an ancient country with long history and abundant cultural heritage. They appreciate much of the traditional customs of us. And in so far my foreign friends all consider me as a friendly and smart person. We respect each other. But there really exist some of them despise, thinking us impolite and dirty. I don’t know the actual reason of this. On the contrary, I think people should respect others no matter where he or she comes from. But may be I think it is because China is a developing country, leaving an impression to them of behindhand.
3.What NOT to do when you go abroad.
We should not have discrimination towards foreigners.
We cannot ask them about their age, salary and family status.
We cannot borrow money from them.
We cannot smoke at non-smoking area. (Because in China , only a few places have divided non-smoking and smoking areas.)
We cannot throw rubbish and spit everywhere.
We cannot cheat in the exam. (Of course it is not allowed in China )
Maybe the Chinese education has some problems. As it said, every class has one unreachable and unteachable student at least. But our country is a developing country and still has a long way to go, to learn a lot, as like us. Thanks to increase enrollment, more and more students go to college who come from all kinds of background, so we can’t ensure that everyone is reachable and teachable. English is an important tool of communication, but whether the students learn it or not is up to them. That’s to say, the key leading to success is held in our hands.
1.What some foreign teachers found strange about Chinese culture.
when foreign teachers come to china, they may be feel strange to Chinese culture, such as rhythm of life, the way of work, the manner of exchange between one person and other person, human behavior, and so on. I think that it is normal. People from different country has different Ways of thinking, so they often has different idea to one thing.
2.How some westerners see you and China.
I do not know how some westerners see me, may be friendly, hospitable or conservative thinking. For China, I think it is not strange for many westerners, Particularly, Olympic Games hold in Beijing is very successful. From the article “culture shock”, I know some behavior of Chinese people make foreign people feel bad, Actually, I also hate these behavior, but I think that it is a process which must undergo in the development of a country, for China, it also. we must accept it. our country also make efforts to promote a good social atmosphere, but it only need time. Please believe us! believe China!
3.What NOT to do when you go abroad.
If I go abroad, I will not adapt the life for a long time, but I have no choice, I can not complain, I must change my way to do something, I must understand local cultures, because the culture is different between China and other country, I must do something according to local cultures, not Chinese cultures, I think that this point is very important for every one being out of his/her country.
In my opinion, English is not so important as the author said in china. To an American, English is very important. To a chinese, it’s just a tool of communication.
I do think that we should study for ourselves, not for teachers, not for parents, just ourselves. So we should achieve enough useful capability in our school, especially the English well after we leave school to entry the society. As we know our nation China becomes international day after day, so we need a second language such as English in the society. I do think the life is ours. If we want it more exciting, we need more capabilities. We need to learn more. Now learning, now harsh, just for the sun in the future.
A thousand people have a thousand learning ways. Why all the people must sit in the classroom, listen to the teacher? Why all the people must learn English? If they don’t study like your way, you classify them as unteachable students. Sorry, I can’t agree with you.
It just a tiny majority to Chinese, most students are reachable and teachable. They, some guys in the example, maybe have never experienced tough lives. They took whatever for granted, because they had “Rich dads”. That is related to their backgrounds.
As you know,there is a great difference between America and China,not only in society,culture,but also in ideology.So I think that we should have a tolerance perspective on such difference.We hope that foreigners could understand our thoughts,at the same time,we also have the need to understand other foreigner’s mind.
In my opinion,I think that he misunderstands some things,and use a wrong way to express it,and also it is not a polite way.In fact,I do not agree with his behavior.
I agree with the author. English is very important. We need to study English well.
To tell the truth,China’s education system exits some problems.In many universities,if a student failed in exam,they have another opportunity until they passed the exam.This resulted in the try-your-luck mentality of some students.Give another chance for students in essence is good,because a few studdents’ study ability is low,they can’t catch up with others.But some student take advantage of this situation.This phenomenon unendurable.
First, I have to admit that the phenomenon in the article do exist in the colleges and universities of our country. I also think advancement is the greatest characteristic of China. And now, it is not that easy to get our diploma, if we do not work hard to gain a better academic record or get too many F for our final examinations in each semester. The school authorities pay more and more attention to our academic performance as well as our competence to be a responsible generation. As for ourselves, we are here at the university to improve our knowledge, to become competent in a specific field, and more important, to learn to think independently and creatively. Ultimately, as Professor Martin said, we will make a positive contribution to a better off harmonious society!
China is a developing country and there may be all kinds of problems during her development process, including higher education. China has a 5000-year history, besides her colorful culture being heritaged, some bad habits also were alive today. In china, if one has a good father, there is no doubt to declare that there are good futures waiting for them. This phenomenon is commonly called as “poor father or rich father”. It is difficult for us to eliminate the bad habit in a short time. But if there are more and more people realizing this problem, the day may not be distant. I think to ourselves, the thing what we can rely on for our whole lives is only the konwledge that we have mastered, not our fathers. So I think I am lucky because I don,t have a rich father. To these educate idiots, what we can do is only say sorry to them.
The phenomenon of students unreachable and unteachable is caused by Chinese educating system.A student will not lose the class if he achieves every homework,even he never say one word in class from A to Izzard.
It’s not to mention what students learn in university is more than the things teachers tell then.And students will busy looking for his job when gruduation is coming. It’s terribly lamentable.
Every student has his own point of view, the student who sent Martin the anonymous letter to express his feeling that Martin does not respect chinese culture is just expressing his own point of view. How can we say that he’s UNREACHABLE AND UNTEACHABLE? What’s more, the student used his own e-mail to send the letter, so his identity can be easily recognised. So, his sending an anonymous letter did not mean that he’s a cowardly student at all.
After reading the article above,i think a lot.
from the article above,i know what an unreachable and unteachable student is and know whether it is good or bad.
generally speaking,i am not’s an unreachable and unteachable student,i don’t want to be .
why not?the answer is simple,i just don’t want to receive a diploma only,that is to say i must prevent me from being waste of time and money.
Compared with the terrible attitude tawords english,i prefer to lernning it well.for i have no background at all,besides,english is my favirite for it is both interesting and usefull.
i just want to make change for my future,but you know,english is the foundation,i must improve my english skills,so i won’t be Educated idiots!
just believe me!
To be honest, most university students have been more than twenty, so they are adults and must live by themselves. However , some of them still depend on their parents and teachers, which is related to methods of parents and university. They do not believe that a successful life need hard work, in contrast, they hurt the benefit of others and country, in order to satisfy themselves luxuriously. They are Unreachable and Unteachable students and there is that kind of people around us indeed. We can try our best to help them. If failed ,stop doing, because they have been grown-ups. Maybe the society will educate them well in the future, such as two examples in the article above.
I do not debate whether Dr. Wolf’s viewpoint that students who refuse to learn English pursue a path of self-destruction and that English is the only way to have a wonderful life, even I ignore the opinion is whether his real intention. All of above posts mentioned these views and criticized, actually, that is not the point. The fact is that Martin wants us to live a great life. Apparently, acquiring English may be not the only way to success, but it is a better method. Prof. Wolf has provided a great opportunity for us. Why not try it?
Just because Professor Wolf said in class does not mean professor insults China. That student must misapprehend what Martin said, so that is just a mistake, in spite of his inappropriate, rude, and offensive email. If he wants to be there, he is unreachable, no longer wasting time. Prof. Wolf cannot control everything, especially human beings. Let it be.
As the saying goes in China:”Talent is not as important as a good father.”There are still many students whose parents are powerful men.And they have planned for their chilrden’s future.In my opinion,English is important,but also not so important as a good father.
After reading the article, I think English is very important nowadays,but not for all Chinese.How important it is depends on what we do and what job will we want to take.Some guys will foget most English words after graduating if they do not take a job related English.
About the question:Should the cowardly student who sent the anonymous email be treated as UNREACHABLE AND UNTEACHABLE，I think he is not.He maybe UNREACHABLE AND UNTEACHABLE if he will not be guided correctly. To tell the true, something from “Culture shock” are totally wrong,but just like what you said,what we can do is change ourselves,and let the change change others’ previous views.
I don’t want to say much more , every country has it own problem, perhaps today’s china still have a lot of difficulties in constructing itself , but I really believe that our country has a hopeful future. In some universities of china , there may be some so called unreachable and unteachale students , but we still don’t want to give up them, we should do what like couch cart have done to his team members. Of course, I don’t agree to the one who declare their open contempt for English due to some misguided nationalistic pride. Because we are college students , we should be polite and sane, the most improtant thing we need to do is studying and learning knowledge, we should not pay much attention to arguing with each other , that no help. We chinese are kind to all the people all over the world, please keep the favorable reputation.
Just as this article mentions;” 5% of Chinese university students are unreachable and unteachable”. I think it reflects that there are some problems in Chinese education system. Those students who serve their time in university without earning education are likely to be washed out in the future competition. The important thing we as a college student should understand that we should achieve some skill and useful thing for our future, such as studying English well.
As we know, China is a developing fast and some systems are gradually promoted. With the perfection of our education system, I am confident that unreachable and unteachable students will be less and less.
Recently I read the e-mail that a student showed his discontentment to the professor. In my opinion, maybe he wants to show his love for the motherland. However, he should try to understand the professor’ perspective of China and understand how to express his emotion correctly, instead of affronting the professor.
First of all,as far as I know, the phenomenon “no college student shall fail to receive a diploma so long as the tuition has been paid” is not the truth. At least, in our college there are some students can’t get diploma every year for many different kinds of causes.And then, just like what Martin said,we also believe that education is indeed important,and we are trying to touch more different things and learn more.We all know that China’s education system has many problems,however, what we should do is to try our best to make it more perfect, but not to complain,that’s meaningless.
Maybe I am so lucky that I never have a parent who holds so large power in hand that would “take care of my future”, and I always consider my career an independent stuff rather than a heritage of the parents. The years in university and graduated school is so precious that I would never waste it. I maintain that students should try their best to treasure the prime they own and prepare their future by theirselves. By the way, in nowadays China, especially in top universities, there is not the case that “no college student shall fail to receive a diploma so long as the tuition has been paid”. Unless the potential graduates are able to reach all the requirements—- enough credits, good GPA, and the thesis that up to the standard—-they will not get the diploma in time.
I think the main problems are Chinese education System and the Society’s prejudices. Chinese education System is a big and hard question which many educational experts try to resolve. But the problem hasn’t ever be resolved for these years.We can receive so many news that the only one thing the students can do is just taking the exam in Newspapers.TO receive a diploma can find a good job in China.The consciousness tell the students how to run.On the other hand ,I think it is the students’ problem.Many good students will become Mediocre after four years life in the university.Why?I think these students get lost in the university and they just don’t know how to learn and what to learn.They get tired of the teacher and what they can do is wasting their time in the university.And they know how to pass the exam thouhgt they don’t listen to the teacher.This is the problem of Chinese education System.
Yes, you are right. What you said impressed me. In china, the system of education isn’t very good. College students can pass their final exam even they learn nothing. They can escape from the classes that they don’t like.
In my college, many students absent courses, which is a normal appearance. When it comes to final exam, teachers will give you points of their subjects, almost everybody could pass the exam. It’s the situation of Chinese college education: university, teacher and student live together in peace.
We dislike those students who don’t learn but get job from their powerful father. You may feel great if you are respected because of your ability but not your father’s power. When we are young, we shouldn’t waste time. We must do things by ourselves. We must learn and work hard.
Maybe as shown in the article, china is still a developing country, there are so many people could not realize the important of language learning. They consider it as a study of science, not a tool; also, situations described in the article can’t include all the true facts in China. In my opinion, this topic is not suitable for students to discuss. we could not change the teacher, even if the society with lots of problems.
China is a large developing country, there are some problems in many field. Education is no exception. For example, there are some unreachable and unteachable students in school. It is a fact. We are also making efforts to improve it. I think that it can be completed by the efforts of the two sides of the teachers and students. But the key depends on the students themselves. This is indeed a undesirable situation, we have to change it.
Sometime students who sit in the back row are not unteachable students; they went class later than others in the first class and have no choice but to sit in the back, so in the next classes they are in the back row. Maybe to some Chinese students, English is just a communication tool, and they are not interested in it, that’s regrettable but the truth.
In my opinion, there are no students who are unreachable and unteachable . In some teachers’ eyes, the students who always sit in the last row are unteachable, and the students who always don’t finish the assignments are unreachable .But I think the phenomenon is to do with the Chinese conditions. In china, there are so much population and so little space ,so some students had to sit in the last row. The students who don’t finish their homework are not really lazy students . May be they have finish the whole book required this semester and are studying something ahead. Then I think it is important for the teachers and students to narrow the gap by communicating with each other fluently.
I don’t know.As a undergraduate majored in biology,I ever took a class of “ecology”.In that class,I learned that every species has diversity,and menbers has a range from stronger ones with advanced survival skills,to those weaker ones with no survival skills and risk their life in danger all the time.Our humen species involves the same rule of nature in our social life,that stronger ones lead better life than those always existed not such strong ones.And it’s so normal that it doesn’t worth our least careness.So just let them go.
Martin really hit the point in his paper. Although I’m a little bit sad to agree with his ideas about the disadvantages of Chinese education, it is the truth. This is a very hard topic to us, every Chinese. In China, the children shoulder most hopes of their family and receive too much attention and dotage, which causes many serious problems to themselves and their families, even the whole society. What Martin just mentioned is a exact reflection of those situation. Thank you for your kind reminding, Martin.
On the other hand, I think the existence of such schoolmates is normal. Just as the old saying goes, ”There are variety of birds in a large forest.” So, what we need to and can do is find out a useful way to help them.
Don’t we?
This may reflect the different between the different country.in china ,parents always take care their child even they reach 18 years old ,so ,sometimes the didn’t realize they should respons for themself and relative people.
I want to say that the students who you talk do exist in China, but we also can figure out many a student behave themselves and do very well in school, in family, and also in society. We will have a harmonious society if we try our best to do what we should do. Thus, such students will change the way they behave in such atmosphere.
Because of different world outlooks, views of life and circumstances, different people have different ideas when they are in the same position. With regard to English learning, I think the most important is to find a proper way suits you best.
Student like the author decried above, exists everywhere, not only in China, I believe. What I want to say is different life background leads to different sense of worth. Once a person does not want to recognize the reality that only he can help himself all over his life, his family can not do that, whatever we do for him will be worthless.
English is important or not is decided by what we do in future. If you know you will not communicate with foreigners for ever, English is nothing. But English is so important to me now and in future. As we know, English is a worldwide language. We can communicate with each other all over the world by speaking English. Meantime, my major needs English so much. In order to catch up the newest approach in the world, I glance over any paper I can get regularly. And most of the papers are written in English. So I do need English deeply. With this knowledge, I will try my best to learn English well.
These unreachable and unteachable students may be considered to be as stupid as their parents, I think. The fact that they could be in the university and accepted by school is also to be suspected. The phenomenon pointed out in the article is not rare and it is the inequality between the rich and poor and it is also considered to be the corruption of the bureaucracy apparently. In the long term I believe that they will have the bitterness they should own because the phenomenon I think is just the problem in the transition of our society and development of the economy. However in my opinion our government now should take some effort to improve itself. Sometimes I think it may not be the fault of children and it is the bad influence of the adults, especially their parents who set a bad example. In other word the school also has some problem in the education. It is the responsibility of the school to teach students to learn the knowledge and let the students know the fact that if they won’t work hard they will get none. Money is not the first thing to consider for school, I suggest. The problem is not easy and simple to solve and I believe that with the endeavor of the whole society and further development of law and improvement of our government we could have a better view of our lives and achieve a really harmonious society.
I think the majority of students are eager for knowldege,who work hard to get a good grade and master skills.The phenomenon mentined in the article exists in the colleages and universities ,but is few.After all,the student who has a rich and well connected father is in the minority.
Chinese education system has some problems ,but this does not mean that we need not to master knowledge.In my opinion,knowledge is the power.English is become more and more important now,we should speak well.
Yes, there are some problems in the system of education. In china, many students try their best to go to the famous university passing the entrance college exam. Once they passed exam, some of student do not study as hard as they can. Even few of them do not to go to class because they know full well that they will not be failed the exam even if they never attend classes. But not everyone is unreachable and unteachable student. Only a very small number of people are. Although in America there is an educational philosophy that no child shall be left behind, there must have few child can not do well as others. So, professor, do not give up these poor guys, we are all your children .I think they do need your suggestions to tell them how to do is the best for them.
A famous writer once said :”Dust is in fact gold in the wrong place”
So I think there is no “unreachable and unteachable students”
They just haven’t found their position.
Judging a student only by his marks is unfair, however, this can’t be one’s excuse for his laziness in a certain subject.
If he really works very hard on it,no matter what grade he gets,he’s good.
Obviously English is important, and it is a tool to communication just as Chinese. Why we refuse to learn it?
Maybe one day we will not use English in our daily life. That also means we lost lots of opportunities to do our job better, because we lost an important tool to get more information.
To gain more tools to communication is mean more opportunities to success in the future.
Different people have different ideas. After reading the article above,I think a lot.
from the article above,I Learn what an unreachable and unteachable student is and whether it is good or bad. Frankly speaking,I am not an unreachable and unteachable student,i don’t want to be .why not?the answer is simple,i just don’t want to receive a diploma only,that is to say i must prevent me from being waste of time and money.
Compared with the terrible attitude towards English,i prefer to lernning it well.for English is my favorite .
Undoubtedly, there are a very few students which are unreachable and unteachable in each university, however famous it is. As the old saying goes, every road leads to Rome. Students may be unreachable and unteachable in some way, but they can be reachable and teachable in another way. It needs to think about carefully. What’s more I should say is that the quality of students ought to be laid solid foundations in primary education and family education. As we grow up, we should be self-discipline for honesty, diligence and modest.
I think it is a problem about our education.
It reminds me a story
“A very young chinese are denounced during the Cultural Revolution,He feels so sad and leave our country.
Before he leave,he said that our motherland don’t love me!
Many years have past,then he meet a wise person in his hometown
The wise person told him,it is not you motherland don’t love you,she just don’t know how to love you just beacause it’s her firs time to be the mother”.
I don’t know how to comment this phenomenon after reading your opinion.This phenomenon is common in China, But different country has different standards to measure something.China is a developing country, you cannot measure everything according to the developed country’s standards.And everyone has different thoughts,you cannot ask them to do what you want them to do.Although the education system improve better and better,everything is up to the people’s attitude.
In my opinion, unreachable and unteachable students exist in every country, not only in China. American education has its advantage and also has its disadvantage, the same as Chinese education and other country’s education all over the world. About this every person undoubts, I think. And different life background brings up different conception. Rich and comfortable life some times leads to idle and dependent manner. So as parents, no matter what background they have, they must let their children know that any one will get nothing without working hard.
English maybe is nothing if you think you will not speak with foreigners all your life. But it is not reality for modern countries. In addition to, our country joined in WTO. There are lots of business and commerce with other countries, and English as the universal language of the world is important especially. So for Chinese people English is also important in order to improving our country. Otherwise English is integrant for me. I need to refer to articles which published in English.
No-one is hard to reach, just more expensive to reach”.
With the right approach, a bit of creativity and a lot of effort, it is possible to connect with even those that have been labelled ‘hard to reach’. This is true of any communication but when it comes to learning, reaching the seemingly unreachable can change lives, re-build communities and create economic success.
We have to admit that there are some problems in China’s education.But this is only the issue of China’s development,it will gradually resolve as the development of China.
The unteachable and unreachable students exist not only in Holistic English, but also in other subjects. School education is not the unique reason for this phenomenon. Home education plays an important role in this issue, for it is a vital factor during the formation of the students’ method of thought.
Students who are borne in the 1980s gain too much grandmother. They could have everything they want, and they don’t need to worry about anything. They formed a bad habit before they went to school.
If school responds to the students’ bad habit with a positive attitude, things maybe better now. Unfortunately, school hasn’t taken any effective means to settle this problem.
The third reason for this issue, I think, is about China’s education system. Education in China is different from that in foreign countries. In China, it is hard to go to a better college, but it is much easier to graduate form it, even though it is a prestigious university. And the knowledge they learn from school will be proved useless when they get the job, so students in school have no desire to learn knowledge.
If we want the small proportion unteachable and unreachable students become teachable and reachable, the above three factor must be considered together.
The Chinese traditional Culture of Confucian in education is the slogan , “a good scholar can become an off”. Most of students maybe study hand for a diploma, for a good jop, in a word, for material living. No doubt that China is developing country, however during the reform of economy and society, form planned to market, there are various of issues we are awkward to deal with.
So capital often decide thing in many ways, like the student for a diploma after his tuition is paid.
Of course, there is some truth in that student reflect that English maybe helpless in the future, we also heard some graduates complaint that he study English for 10 years, however, he do not need English to assist him on his jop. Why?
In my opinion, presently ,the Chinese position of the industrial chain globally is machining affect the structure of human resource, and mislead some student. We must be clear that China as well as other country is advancing, our society require knowledge and innovation. English in one of the ways for us, so well, for our motherland become more strong, ”study hard, and day day up!” hah…