Indian Giver
When you give something and then take it back, you are called an “Indian Giver.” This is very bad in western culture.
There is great confusion and misunderstanding about Chinese holidays. The Chinese Government has been accused of being an Indian Giver.
String of Holidays in China Bring Time Off, With Complications …
A holiday schedule granted seven straight days off, but workers will have to make up for some on weekends.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/02/world/asia/02china.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=China%20holidays&st=cse
The confusion comes from the inartful use of language. The National holiday is only October 1 through 5 (Friday through Tuesday) but by rescheduling the subsequent workdays of October 6, 7 and 8 (Wednesday, Thursday and Friday) the holiday period can include the next weekend of October 9 and 10 (Saturday and Sunday).
This is a rescheduling, NOT a make up. Using “make up” creates the confusion and anger which results in the charge of Indian Giver. (What the Government gives with one hand, it takes away with the other.) This is simply a false charge that the Government invites through the wrong choice of words.
Language is important.
The extended holiday period, enabled by rescheduling, allows university students and migrant workers sufficient time to return home to share this family holiday with their family in their home province.
National Day is an important family gathering time. Up to 10 million people will travel daily. Airplanes will be over booked. Extra trains will still have standing room only. Long distance buses will not be able to handle the demand. People will stand in long lines for hours to buy non-existent tickets. People will sit on the ground at train and bus stations for days to find a way home.
China’s extensive rail system, long distance bus network and airport system transports millions daily but simply can’t handle the holiday crush.
The extended holiday period, through rescheduling certain work days, allows more people to return home to join the family gathering. Unlike the west, where the family is no longer the center of society, Chinese culture places great value on FAMILY.
By allowing for the rescheduling of certain work days, China confirms the value and importance of FAMILY while acknowledging the difficulty of transporting millions of people home for FAMILY preservation.
Even with the extended holiday period, students will depart for home as early as September 27 or return to school as late as October 13. These students have thousands of miles to go home and they must have seats or sleepers, there is no way to stand for 20 hours.
So the New York Times and other western media should explore China on a deeper basis and understand its underlying core values before publishing a hatchet piece attacking China as an Indian Giver.
EDITORIAL NOTE: I challenge Andrew Jacobs, the author of the NYT article and we engaged in an extensive exchange of emails. His defense was demeaning, insulting and sarcastic. I dared him to allow me to publish the emails but he never responded. I informed him that I would publish the emails with his part paraphrased but again he failed to reply. The following is the email exchange:
——Original Message——
From: NYTimes.com
To: jacobsnyt@gmail.com
ReplyTo: holisticenglish@yahoo.com
Subject: READER MAIL: Andrew Jacobs – NULL
Sent: Oct 1, 2010 6:55 PM
To: ANDREW JACOBS
You have received reader mail via nytimes.com. To respond to this reader, simply ‘reply’ to this message.
READER’S NAME:
Martin Wolff
READER’S E-MAIL:
holisticenglish@yahoo.com
READER’S MESSAGE:
RE: Mandatory Vacation with a catch
Your ignorance about China has finally become too much to remain silent any longer.
There is no give and take as you suggest.
There is a legal holiday for a specified time period. To extend this legal holiday period, work schedules are rearranged.
This is an additional benefit for Chinese workers who must travel great distances to be with their families during the holiday.
It is only the expat community that complains China gives with one hand and takes away with the other. If the NY Times is going to continue to allow you to mistreptresent China, the least you could do is to stop relying upon the ignorant expat community for your information.
ARTICLE REFERENCED (if any):
None Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
***
Re: READER MAIL: Andrew Jacobs – NULL
Andrew Jacobs <jacobsnyt@gmail.com>
(Paraphrase: No expats contributed to the article; why have I not responded to the article author’s email.)
***
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Martin Wolff:
My response is on my web site as Western Press
And the thread Indian Giver
***
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Martin Wolff:
My response is on my web site as Western Press
And the thread Indian Giver
***
From: Andrew Jacobs
To: Martin Wolff
Sent: Tue, October 5, 2010 5:02:21 PM
Subject: Re: READER MAIL: Andrew Jacobs – NULL
(Paraphrase: Objection that my web site constitutes a response to the article; and to my claim that the article distorts China.)
***
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Martin Wolff
Read my students’ comments. They speak for China better than I.
You have left an inappropriate impression.
I did not accuse you of only talking to expats.
My expat friends agree with the Indian Giver idea because they, like you, fail to understand that nothing is given and then taken away. Once they understand, they have no objection or complaint. They are appreciative of the extended travel opportunity.
As one student stated, “most” Chinese appreciate the extended vacation without complaint. You sensationalized a minority and ignorant point of view. Go back and explain the real situation to those you interviewed and you will get a completely different result.
As I stated, I placed the blame for the misunderstanding on the Government for a poor word choice. Both the original Chinese and the English translation create the misunderstanding that something is being given and then taken back.
***
From: Andrew Jacobs
To: Martin Wolff
Sent: Tue, October 5, 2010 5:24:51 PM
Subject: Re: READER MAIL: Andrew Jacobs – NULL
(Paraphrase: The opinion of a few students is not important; I have taken the original article too seriously, it was meant to be a light piece; no one else has complained about the article.)
***
From: Martin Wolff
To: Andrew Jacobs
The schedule is no different this year. It is the same every year.
My students are on vacation at present. When they return there will be many more posts. I doubt any will agree with your article. We shall see.
My post grad students are the pulse of China, the future. The Chinese central Government pays great attention to their opinions. If you knew China, you would know how important my students English comments are taken in Beijing.
By web site has many controversial issues that are routinely blocked in China. Taiwan, Dali Lama etc. The Chinese web censors visit my site daily but it has never been blocked in China. The NYT cannot make the same claim.
Yes, we can agree to disagree but to poo poo my students’ comments is a monumental error, one that the central Government has not and will not make.
You really do not know or understand China
***
From: Martin Wolff
To: Andrew Jacobs
Do you dare to give permission for me to put our email exchange on my web site and see how the students react?
***
From: Martin Wolff
To: Andrew Jacobs
no response?
***
From: Andrew Jacobs
To: Martin Wolff
Paraphrase: (Four student opinions are not universal; my knowledge of China is sarcastically ridiculed.)
***
From: Martin Wolff
To: Andrew Jacobs
No, every day I am in China I realize how much I do not know and how I will never fully understand China because I did not grow up here
***
From: Andrew Jacobs
To: Martin Wolff
Paraphrase: (China has never blocked the NYT.)
***
From: Martin Wolff
To: Andrew Jacobs
You are wrong.
***
From: Martin Wolff
To: Andrew Jacobs
Since you will not give permission to publish our email exchange, I will paraphrase your part.
Mr. Andrew Jacobs thinks he is an expert on China because he spent a year teaching and writing in China during the pro-democracy movement, and has more recently been on assignment in China to cover the 2008 Olympics. He has written many articles about China and they mostly put China in a poor light. He is no friend of China. He is just another foreigner who thinks he knows China because he has had a casual relationship with China. Andrew Jacobs is either ignorant or a liar.
Also many Chinese people canˊt understand it. I think it is difficult to cater for all tastes. It is OK for majority. In China many people are far away from their family like students,migrant workers.Only such long holiday they can get together with their family. At the same time this can stimulate consumption. People have enough time to travel. They can go shopping since they prefer to sleep on weekends.
I agree with Kate. The extended holiday period allows students and migrant workers sufficient time to return home. On the other hand, it stimulates Chinese economy.
The extended holiday period, enabled by rescheduling, allows collage students and migrant workers to return home and share this good holiday with their family members。Besides，a great many people can have a enjoyable trip with sufficient time.
I agree with your comment.In Chinese Culture,we also loathe the Indian Giver.In China ,there are several statutory holidays,such as Mid-Autumn Festival,May Day,National Day,Spring Festival and so on. We utilize the holidays to get rid of the fatigue caused by intense work,visit place of interet with friends,or as you have said, return home to join the family gathering.Considering the annual assignment, appropriate “make up” on the weekend is barely acceptable,despite we don’t want to work on weekends. People view the holiday from different angles, you can regard it as “make up”,rescheduling or Indian Giver.The important thing is the relatively long vacation meet our demand for relaxation,amusement and going home to visit our family.Maybe this is one of the differences between Chinese and Western Culture.
I must admit that in the Golden week, there are lots of people going outside, and there can be some traffic problems or even environmental problems, also I recognize that some people don’t want to go out in these days, but we shouldn’t ignore that there are so many people still want to go home to stay with their parents, and there are so many people who want to travel with their friends who usually cannot have the leisure time. Its good things outweigh its bad things.
I have read the article and the email exchange, like you said, foreign have little know about China, they will never understand that at the seven-day national day, millions of people go back home, waiting long time just for a ticket to go home, it’s the concept of family that make us go back home without any complaint, even the ticket is no seat, just for go back home, especially in spring festival, people wait whole day waiting in lines just for a train ticket, when there is no ticket, they try their best to buy the ticket form “yellow cow”, though the price will be twice or even higher than the real price buy form the train station, just for go back home, just for a reunion of all family member, few foreign can really understand it.
It is my belief that there is no investigation, no right to speak. National Day is an important family gathering time. In China many people who they can get together with their family are expecting such long holiday .A holiday schedule granted seven straight days off, but workers will have to make up for some on weekends .But I think that they are also very happy. So we don’t care publishing a hatchet piece attacking our country from the New York Times and other western media which don’t understand our culture.
In my eyes, making up for some days on weekends is natural, and it is effective that collectting some days of rest in terms of cancelling ones.We Chinese do not necessarily have a rest on weekends, and which is not cornered with human rights.
Besides I am happy we have a seven-days holidy. Because I can get together with my family and travel around during this period.I never treat our government as an Indian Giver,but I am confused why the western Andrew Jacobs think so.
Different countries have different culture and custom. In China, a longtime holidays have been our tradition. The seven-day holidays can make people relax from their work and study. They could have fun with their friends and famliies.
Andrew Jacons is either ignorant or a liar.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE4BJ0NL20081220
China blocks Internet access to New York Times
I have to say that I like government’s policy about the holidays.I prefer to work many days and enjoy the holidays together.
sure it is ,in holidays there are more persons in trains ,buses .but more people prefer to have a long enough holiday ,other than work two days and two days-off.In long holidays ,you can have enough time to do what you want to .
Professor,thanks for your understanding! I do think that you are a person who is sincere and rational.
“This is a rescheduling,not a make up.”After reading your article about Indian Giver and knowing your views,I will not confuse and angry at all.National holidays should be for 7Days,but for 5Days in fact in that we have to makeup for some weekends.So we have the feeling that giverment cheating us and it is an Indier Giver.If seeing this as reschedul so that let us have enough time to go home,we will feel better.
After reading this article, I am very miss my family.Yes,the long National Day holidays is necessary for many people who stay in other place back home to get together with their families. In China, the family is very important. Loving family is a traditional virtue.The long holidays just extent this virtue.So the govern is not the “indian Giver”,they have done what they should do.
During the National Day,one of my classmates gets engaged with his classmate of high school,I went his hometown in Ningbo,six classmates were invited and we have a good time.
National day holiday is a good time to travel.On october,the weather is not too cold or too hot,and have enough time to go and back,it is very nice to travel with family.
What’s more,many people are plan to shanghai expo on October,so,if you want to see expo,hurry up and take action.
During the National Day,most people have enough time to together with family,shoping with friends and travel to another beatiful city.because those people like students teachers and white-collars are busy in working days.
Family is a centre of a country. In china,there are lots of people and the people make up a big family which makes China stronger than any other country. Why a family exists? Making up a family is not simply through the marriage between a man and a woman. The family need communication. But the folks always work hard for living a better life with their family and have less time to communicate with their family. The week-long holidays just satisfy peoples’ need. People can go home or travel with their family in week-long holidays to improve their feeling on family.
Chairman MAO has a famous saying:”you have no right to say without researching”!Many people do not research but they are speaking too much.
Andrew Jacobs is either ignorant or a liar.he is just a representative of many immature western people.
China’s holiday is chinese business,not NYT’S ,SO please leave China alone,it is not within NYT power.
TO tell the truth,western press has very little influence to the central government of China.they should pay more attention to the poor of AFRICA! THE WAR OF MIDDLE EAST!THE CLIMATE CHANGE!THE PERIOUS EARTH!!!
Frangkly,just like the Western Press,I have been held the opinion that china government is a Indian Giver.I didn’t explore China on a deeper basis and understand its underlying core values. It’s true that the National holiday is only October 1,but government give our extended holiday to let us gather with our families,rest from work and go on a tour.
We would not fell the inportantance of family while we lived with our parents before going to college or working outside.Sometimes we can only go home in week-long holidays.No matter how crowded the bus or train is,the mood to go home is constant.
In china, we all know the importance of family. We all grow up at parents’ eyes, from a baby to an adult. Parents are our best teachers. They gave us everything besides the life. I think every son and daught when they grow up, the first thing is to pay back to their parents. Because we love them…
Loving family is the morality abound of chinese people, we always missed the family much, so the central government extended the holiday so that the university students and migrant workers have sufficient time to return home to share this family holiday with their family in their home province. Moreover, during the long National holiday, we have the opportunity to travel and shopping, so we are appreciative of the extended holiday.
The National holiday makes us away from working or studying for several days. It gives us a chance to go home and shares the family diner. In the city, most of the workers are migrant from other provinces. After staying home for 3 or 4 days, people will have a travel nearby the city. They want to relax themselves, because they will have more works to do next week.
Different culture makes different ways of dealing with the issues.In my opinion,rescheduling the time is for the touring to certain extend,not all for the core value of family.The economic revenue bebind is large
Whenever and wherever we are,home is the one we’ll never forget.Because it is there,we feel safe;as it is in our hearts,we’ll have the courage to go ahead without any fear.
Andrew Jacobs doesn’t really understand China, the meaning of the holiday, or the value of FAMILY. So there is no need to talk about China with him. Every time, you want to give some comments on something, you’d better think it over. Don’t just depend on the personal preference.
In my eyes,different countries have different culture and custom.
Yes,in china,most of the people love their families.So do I.In the National day,we have seven days so that we can have a good time with our families.So,the holiday provides us a good chance to share the time with our family members if we are busy in working or studying usually.
Maybe you are right , but some times we should consider the current circumstance . Several days ago , one of my classmates who now studies in USA told me that she hadn’t adapted to the life style in American although she had been there for about 4 mouths, from the perspective of my view ,the most important reason is culture , so do it with the questions you mentions above ,I think .
well,this is china,we experienced this when we were in the primary school,so as for me,this is home style hot pot